Rebecca Zung (@rebeccazung) has been recognized as one of the Best Lawyers in America by U.S. News and is a globally recognized expert on negotiating with narcissists, with over 35 million views on YouTube in just two years.
Rebecca created the SLAY® Negotiation Method and is the author of the upcoming book SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win, which features a foreword by Chris Voss. She has also written two bestselling books: Negotiate Like You M.A.T.T.E.R.: The Sure Fire Method to Step Up and Win, with a foreword by Robert Shapiro, and Breaking Free: A Step-by-Step Divorce Guide for Achieving Emotional, Physical, and Spiritual Freedom.
Rebecca is frequently called upon to provide her perspective in media outlets, including Extra, Forbes, Huffington Post, Newsweek, Time, Dr. Drew, and Ed Mylett’s Podcast.
Her podcast, Negotiate Your Best Life, is ranked in the top 0.5% of all podcasts globally.Along with In-N-Out Burger owner Lynsi Snyder Ellingson, Rebecca founded Slay Legal Aid, a 501c3 that provides legal aid to those in need.
What Travis and Rebecca discussed:
Why Consistency is Key: Rebecca explains that it took her around 10 years of consistently speaking at networking events, publishing articles, and building her brand before she reached a point where she no longer had to market her law practice actively. This shows the importance of sticking with marketing and branding efforts over the long haul rather than giving up after just a few attempts.
How to Leverage Relationships: Rebecca highlights how key relationships, like the one with her best friend who encouraged her and the woman who gave her an existing law practice, were pivotal moments that helped propel her forward.
The Reason Behind Rebecca’s Pivot: After building a very successful law practice, Rebecca explains she merged it with others because she was burnt out. This shows that even when something is going well, don’t be afraid to make a change if it no longer aligns with your passion and purpose.
Why Negotiating with a Narcissist is Challenging: Rebecca explains that narcissists see things as black and white, and their goal is often not just to win but to make the other person lose. She notes that trying to negotiate with a narcissist rationally typically doesn’t work because they are focused on their own self-interest and “narcissistic supply.” Rebecca suggests figuring out what matters most to the narcissist and using that as leverage when negotiating.
How to Turn Setbacks into Opportunities: When a business partnership went south, Rebecca used it as motivation to double down on her strengths. She refined her negotiation program, embraced online marketing, and ultimately built a thriving business that allowed her to make a bigger impact.
If you want to learn tactical strategies for achieving your biggest goals, listen to this podcast episode featuring lawyer-turned-entrepreneur Rebecca Zung. You’ll discover how her grit and ability to turn setbacks into opportunities ultimately led to the thriving business she has today.
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[ 00:1 ]
This episode is brought to you by Tools and Weapons, a podcast hosted by Microsoft Vice Chair and President Brad Smith. In it, global Leaders discuss the promise and peril of the digital age, from environmental sustainability and cybersecurity to ethical ai. Guests like journalist Kara Swisher and Microsoft c e o, Satya Nadella share lessons from their past to reframe some of society’s toughest challenges and seek new solutions, follow tools and weapons with Brad Smith on Spotify. Now.
[ 00:30 ]
Rebecca Zung : So for a Narcissist, you’re either for them or against them. It’s all black and white. When you go to Negotiate with them, you are not dealing with a person who’s rational. You are not dealing with a person who’s reasonable because You know you’re sitting there. You’re thinking, well, we all want to get to a rational conclusion here. That’s not how they think. They will take themselves down to take you down.
[ 00:30 ]
Travis Chappell : Welcome, back to the show. I’m Travis Chappell . And I believe that if you can connect with the best, you can become the best So. after creating 800 podcast episodes about building your network, I’ve come to realize that networking is really just making friends if you doing it the right way. Anyway, join me as I. make friends with world class athletes like Shaquille, Neal, entertainers like Rob, Dyrdeck authors like Dr, Nicole, Lappera, former presidents like Vicente Fox, or even the occasional FBI hostage negotiator, billionaire, real estate mogul, or polarizing political figures. So. if you want to make more friends that help you become a better version of yourself, then subscribe to the show and keep on listening ’cause this is Travis Makes Friends. Hey, what’s up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Travis Makes Friends podcast.
[ 01:38 ]
Travis Chappell : Today I am making friends with REBECCA ZUNG, how are you?
[ 01:42 ]
Rebecca Zung (1m 42s): I am great, especially since I get to talk to you.
[ 01:42]
Travis Chappell : Yeah, we’re here making it happen in Santa Monica, which I could think of worse places to, to do a podcast together. That’s right.
[ 01:53]
Rebecca Zung : Sun is shining today,
[ 01:53]
Travis Chappell : So it’s, and you live some warm and you live around here, right? I
[ 01:57]
Rebecca Zung : Do. I live in Manhattan Beach.
[ 01:58]
Travis Chappell : Manhattan Beach. That’s one of my favorites. That’s one of my favorites. I grew up in SoCal, but I’m in Vegas now. But whenever we’d go to the beach growing up, it was like I always, I always wanted to be in Manhattan for
[ 02:08]
Rebecca Zung : Sure. Yeah, it’s beautiful.
[ 02:09]
Travis Chappell : Now, I know that there’s a bunch of things that we’re gonna end up talking about here today and, and a couple things that I want to talk to you about specifically. But before we do that, I want to build a little bit of context for anybody that is watching or listening right now who may not know who you are. So let’s rewind the clock. REBECCA. Let’s go back to, let’s say 10 years old. 10. So take us back, set the scene. Where in the world are you? What’s life like for REBECCA at 10?
[ 02:37]
Rebecca Zung : Oh, 10 years old was, that was a rough time for me. Okay. Actually, I was in McLean, Virginia. I was a little half Chinese girl who was I think, feeling kind of voiceless. Hmm. At that time, I was feeling very different than everybody else. I had had a couple of friends, but I was feeling very different than everyone else. And I was bullied for being Asian. Okay.
[ 03:18]
Rebecca Zung : And You know there was nobody else that was half Asian. My middle name is Yukon You. know everybody else had a middle name like Marie. Yeah. Or Anne. Ann. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And even though it McLean Virginia is actually a suburb of Washington DC it just was very different. Yeah. So
[ 03:43]
Travis Chappell : What did your parents do?
[ 03:44]
Rebecca Zung : My dad’s a physician. He’s an anesthesiologist. He was in Washington. And my mom had been an operating room nurse German. Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. So I’m half Chinese and half German, which means I have no fun genes whatsoever.
[ 03:59]
Travis Chappell : I, I don’t know. It seems like you have some fun. It’s
[ 04:01]
Rebecca Zung : Very You know, organized and Yeah. You know. But it, it was, it was a difficult time. I feel like I didn’t come into my own until I was a little older than that. So 10 years old. That was a rough time for me.
[ 04:16]
Travis Chappell : Was there anything that you took solace in? Anything that gave you a sense of self or fortitude at the, at the time? Like an activity or school or You know sports or anything else like that?
[ 04:31]
Rebecca Zung : I had a lot of cousins. My, my one cousin said that when my dad and his siblings came over from China, they recreated the clan of the way the Chinese people You know were in back in China was that they would all kind of live in a, a You know the families would get married, but they would, they would all stay close to each other. And cousins were like siblings. You know. Well, obvi, obviously, we didn’t live in the same house, but I was very close to all of my cousins. I still am. Okay. So my cousins are like siblings. Yeah. And they’re all half also.
[ 05:12]
Rebecca Zung : Okay. Interestingly enough, all of my dad’s brothers married You know wom women from the United States. Yeah. You know who are white and I
[ 05:24]
Travis Chappell : People You had something in common with Yeah.
[ 05:26]
Rebecca Zung (5m 26s): So I think, but You know, I, I interestingly, I would go to Chinese school on Saturday mornings to take Mandarin lessons and they were all Chinese. So I didn’t fit in there either. Yeah. You know. Right. And I think You know, being with my cousins, I felt normal there. Yeah. I think maybe that gave me solace.
[ 05:50]
Travis Chappell : Did you take to school, did you enjoy school or
[ 05:53]
Rebecca Zung : School? Only later. Okay. Only later.
[ 05:56]
Travis Chappell : So, so let’s, let’s move into that part then. So you You know this, this time in your life isn’t a great time. But then you said you kind of started coming to your own a little bit later than that. So at what point did you start feeling like You know, I guess more confident or, or secure or more like you were fitting in?
