Howard Stern hates podcasts.
After he first expressed this opinion around 2015, controversial comic Ari Shaffir took to the mic on the Joe Rogan Experience to blast Stern with a very NSFW – albeit very funny – rant.
“It shows how much he lost touch. Stern, no one wants to become a radio DJ who is doing podcasts. That’s not our end goal.” “He said it’s for losers so anyone who is listening, Howard Stern called you a loser.”
In response, Stern doubled down.
“He’s dicking around with some podcasts. And he’s heard that. I said that podcasts are no good podcasts are fine. You want to make a podcast, sit in your room and make a podcast. You want to make money and become a broadcaster and actually get a following. You’ve got to put yourself to the test.”
“I’m telling you if you want to become a radio broadcaster and make a living at this and get a following, you’ve got to go on terrestrial radio, not even satellite. You got to go into terrestrial radio and wait for the ratings book to come out and you’ll find out if you’re any good.”
“If I had to make a career today and I made a podcast, nobody would know who I was, that ain’t being humble, that’s just the truth. You got to go to a market like Hartford, Connecticut, and beg someone to put you on the air, and don’t think that’s easy either.”
“This guy is like a street performer giving advice to Paul McCartney. Guy’s a ******* moron.”
Lest you think he has softened his stance in recent years, Stern made a point to express his hatred for podcasts once again recently during a segment on April 6th, 2021
“Nowadays, because there are podcasts, and everybody is podcasting and on the radio, everybody thinks they know how to do radio. They know how to do talk. But you’ve never gone on a radio station and had to get ratings. It’s nonsense what you’re doing, sitting in your house with your podcast, no one is listening to it. No one gives a f***. Podcasts… I tried to listen to some of them. I got the podcast app. And it’s a lot of people talking to other people who aren’t really that interesting. They’re bores. They’re f****** bores. But no one tells them that they’re bores.”
What Stern Gets Right
I’m not here to say Howard Stern is some talentless hack. He’s Howard Stern. The man is an absolute legend and one of the best interviewers in the game.
I wouldn’t echo Shaffir’s more aggressive comments relating to this topic.
I agree with Joe Rogan who said that Howard Stern actually paved the way for podcasts like the Joe Rogan Experience and media as we know it today.
So, giving credit where credit is due, I want to examine where Stern has made valid points over the years relating to podcasts.
1. Many podcasters are overly confident
Howard Stern obviously would disagree with me when I say podcasting is an art. But I doubt he would disagree with me when I say that interviewing – or even talking – behind a microphone is an art.
There are truly too many podcasters who simply throw up a mic, crack open a beer, and start motor-mouthing on the assumption they are inherently interesting – when in fact, as Howard would say – “they’re bores.”
I’d encourage far more podcasters to work on developing their interviewing skills.
2. Many successful podcasters have been helped by having existing audiences
Yes, many successful podcasters got a boost from pre-existing audiences. Joe Rogan, Dr. Drew, Adam Carolla, etc.
Howard notes this: “Joe Rogan has been on TV – that old-fashioned medium – that’s how people know him. And he does stand-up and he put out records and he goes on tour in front of people. I have a following from terrestrial radio. I have millions of people.”
Personally, I think it would be tough – more like damn near impossible – to argue that Rogan’s entire podcast success could be attributed to him hosting Fear Factor. But I’ll get into that in a minute.
3. Podcasts often best serve a specific niche
This is an area Stern is extremely correct about. Niches are a key ingredient to success for any type of content, including podcasting.
He explains, “I actually enjoy some podcasts because they’re so small. In other words, if I want to hear a chess player, talk about chess, you know – the seven of us who are going to listen to that. Or if I want to hear someone talk about the technique in a watercolor painting, then it works for that.”
What Stern Gets Dead Wrong
There is so much Stern has said about podcasting that is objectively false. Keep reading as I break down my three biggest disagreements.
1. “There’s no, as we know it right now, there’s no way to congregate a mass audience around [podcasting] unless you [already] have an audience.”
This is just blatantly false, and I’m living proof. When I started my podcast a few years ago, nobody knew who I was. By focusing on the niche topic of networking and bringing on high-profile guests, I quickly hit the top charts on Apple Podcasts, and fast forward to the present day, the podcast has had over 2 million downloads and has directly generated well over a million dollars in business for me. That’s not including all other opportunities and money that has come in as a direct result of the relationships made through the show.
I’m not an isolated case either.
My producer, Eric, has gained nearly 1 million podcast downloads in the two years since launching his true-crime podcast, Preacher Boys, and has led to ways to monetize including sponsorships, affiliate sales, and paid speaking opportunities.
Many clients I’ve directly consulted with have also crushed it in the podcasting space as well, bringing in extra revenue and opening other doors they never thought possible.
2. “You got to go into terrestrial radio and wait for the ratings book to come out and you’ll find out if you’re any good.”
This statement perplexes me. I understand it if you are specifically starting a path to become a radio host (though that is a career path I don’t think makes much sense in 2021.)
But if you want to build an audience and strong listenership, you can do that through podcasting. And you don’t have to wait for a “ratings book.” You can check your download numbers almost instantly.
It’s the same principle, the audience will determine if you are good, but you are not limited to a local area – you have international potential – and instant data to see how they’re receiving it.
3. You can’t make “real money” podcasting
Stern mocked Shaffir saying, “‘It’s so old-fashioned making money for your job.’ I’m talking about making a living. I’m talking about being able to live your life and do the thing.”
The reality is, you can make great money podcasting. I’ve given a small glimpse of my own success earlier in this article.
You might be reading that saying, “Well, what is a million compared to Howard Stern’s multi-million deal at Sirius XM?”
Your right. Comparatively, it doesn’t come close. But podcasters and podcast companies are landing Howard Stern-level deals – oftentimes with less than 1/3 of the experience he’s had on-air.
- Joe Rogan signed a $100 million+ deal with Spotify
- Call Her Daddy was also purchased by Spotify for a whopping $60 million.
- Amazon purchased the podcast network Wondery for approximately $300 million.
- Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark from My Favorite Murder rake in $15 million per year through their podcast.
- Howard Stern’s own network, Sirius XM purchased Stitcher for a whopping $325 million.
Follow the dollar signs. Podcasting is coming fast and furious. It’s undeniable.
While I can’t fully understand Stern’s aversion to podcasting as a medium, I do understand that he – like any of us – has his own biases and beliefs formed by his experiences. When The Howard Stern Show started in 1985, it was a completely different world, and the path to becoming notorious as a broadcaster looked very different. It was objectively harder. There were more gatekeepers, auditions, costs, regulations, and other hurdles to jump through. Hurdles that I didn’t have to face as a podcaster.
But the truth is, things are not going to go back to the way they were. Things have changed for the better. There’s more accessibility to equipment and resources to get your name out like ever before. You don’t have to rely on taking the steps Howard took decades ago – regardless of his own survivor bias that tells him it’s still the only way.
What worked for him won’t work for you.
And heck, with how fast things change, the path looks slightly different than when I started just three years ago.
But one thing is certain, podcasts aren’t going away anytime soon.
